Why I Don’t Want to Go to Church
OK, confession time: we haven’t exactly been going to church lately.* It’s summer, which means more going out of town, etc, and when we are in town, the early combined service time lands squarely in the middle of the wee one’s morning nap. So we’ve been dutifully following along with a sermon series via podcast that we’ve been enjoying, and basically trying not to lose our salvation. OK, kidding. More like trying to figure out just what church is meant to be like, and why exactly it is that we don’t actually really miss it…
{*cue excommunication from the good graces of the traditionally-minded believers in the importance of BIP’s (butts-in-pews) every.single.week.}
The Church and I have had a life-long relationship that more resembles a love-hate type than anything else. For part of my childhood, I was a pastor’s kid. For the rest of it, and to this day, my parents have always been involved in the church in other major ways. I grew up with church events most nights of the week, and twice on Sundays. To be honest, I owe much of my spiritual formation to my parents influence and my growing up years of involvement in all that the church had to offer, and I am eternally grateful for it.
But.
Kids these days. *tsk tsk*. You see, my generation has all kinds of angsty questions about the way traditional church happens, and just how genuine and {dare I say it?} effective it really is {And don’t assume I’m defining effectiveness by BIP’s (see above), or the size of the sanctuary. I’m thinking more along the lines of hearts seeking after Jesus, coming together to encourage one another and spur each other on towards holiness, in love and grace, and genuine care}.
So here’s my question:
If I can attend a church for a year and a half, pretty well every week, and get involved in several ways, and even have known the pastor before coming here, and STILL can walk in, walk out, and not have one.single.person really truly know me or show an interest in what’s happening in my life… is that a problem? Is that what church is supposed to be like?
And yes, I know that part of the responsibility rests on me. Getting involved, introducing myself, etc. I’ve been there, done that. The problem I am having is that so often the “relationship” (and I use the term loosely) at this point tends to stall. What follows is months and years (and a lifetime??) of weekly shuffling into the pew/singing songs/shaking hands/smiling-even-when-you-don’t-feel-like-it/making small talk… lather, rinse, repeat, and never anything deeper or more meaningful. Blah!
Let me explain what I wish church was like…
You enter in to a room filled with friends. The number doesn’t really matter. Enough to feel like a big ol’ family, and few enough to feel like you can validly call them each a friend. You are greeted with love and acceptance. They are glad you’re there. You are acknowledged and known. Throughout the time, your spirit is challenged with God’s word, you are encouraged to worship corporately in a variety of ways, and you feel personally safe enough to share your real life struggles, which in turn cause people to encourage and pray for you. There are people from all the generations, young and old. There might be a baby fussing, or a baby breastfeeding, and no one minds a bit. There is always some kind of yummy food to be shared. You leave refreshed and renewed, soaked in the love of Christ incarnated to you through His body, the Church, and can’t wait to do it all again next week.
At the end of the day though, that’s just not what my local church looks like, and yet I don’t think it’s good to just give up on church altogether either. Whether it’s a home church or an established traditional church, I believe that all Christians should be in intentional community with other Christians on a regular basis.
I feel caught. Trapped. By the religious (and missionary*) expectations. I *want* to be in genuine community. I really do. I just struggle with finding that in this place.
This is a very current conversation for me right now, and my thoughts are somewhat muddied simply by being in the midst of it. I don’t yet have answers (will I ever??), but I don’t feel that I can put off talking about it any longer.
* Most (if not all) traditional missions agencies expect their missionaries to be active and involved in their local church. Since we are pursuing missionary aviation for our family, this just complicates it all further…
{PS. We visited yet another local church last Sunday morning, and it was… ugh… an unfortunate confirmation of the above thoughts, and then some…}
What are your thoughts on church? Do you like going? Do you feel obligated to go? What would your ideal picture of church be like?
My family and I have moved around quite a number of times due to my husband’s job. Every new place we move, I always pray that God would put me in a good, Bible-believing, church. So far, doctrinally-speaking, every church has been wonderful and I have grown as a Christian in each one. Having been to churches all over the United States and even a couple overseas, I can definitely say that feeling connected in that way with a church has all depended on the church iteslf and most definitely which region the church was in. In West Coast churches, where I am originally from, I have found it more difficult to get closely connected with people because I think the culture of that region is not as hospitality oriented as, say, some of the churches I have attended that are located in the “Bible Belt” Also, with the trend toward growing large churches, it is easy to feel lost in the crowd in attending one of those because there are so many people attending each service that you may not see the same people from week to week.
People in our generation and younger are also connecting more and more through social media instead of getting into face to face relationships with people as compared to our parents’ generation. I realize that I am probably making a huge generalization here but if you combine the trend toward larger churches that attract people who are less and less accustomed to having face to face interaction with others, it could spell disaster for traditional churches and their roll as venues for the Body of Christ to live and serve in genuine friendship, as you mentioned, leaving believers out in the cold.
One of the most relationship oriented churches I attended in the last few years was a small church with traditional music, whose pews were filled with believers who averaged in age around 60 years. There were only a handful of people my age and younger who attended along with their children. They had potlucks, everyone knew everyone else, people took time to get to know us and our children. It was a wonderful place. I sincerely hope you are able to find a place like that for you and your family as I agree with you that believers should be “in intentional community with others on a regular basis.”
I am just finding your site this morning. My heart is heavy & sad for you & your family & for many who commented. The hunger for a church family is the kind of church our Lord would have all churches to be. He made us to want, need, & desire that fellowship. I can say that in 25+ years of church going we have been blessed by 3 churches that were full of loving community along with true Biblical teaching. God even moved us 750 miles because of a church. (We were not staff just servants) Not only did God know what our home needed, He also had plans for us to use our gifts/talents there. Then He moved us to a new start church & that was a wonderful adventure. Not always easy & a lot of work but seeing lives changed by the Presence of God was a great faith-lifting time. Even in the midst of these wonderful, loving churches there were times I felt alone. Sometimes I think it was because I pulled back & sometimes people were too busy with their families & friends & activities. I think that we as families have allowed our lives to be to busy to do the things that God calls us to. Working just to keep our families surviving takes a major amount of time. Then add on all the extras. God has again moved us. This time 1300 miles & we are looking for that church you describe along with one where we can use the gifts/talents we feel God has blessed us with & is still interested in us using those gifts. This is the first time God hasn’t had a church for us before we moved, so it’s been a lot harder. We have attended a wonderful church for about 4 months now. While the worship & preaching are great, it became evident that it was very hard to become known & involved & do life together. It is not the church God has for us. After all these years of being the first to church & the last to leave, being involved in someway the whole time we were there, going every week & just slipping into the pew is not enough & it was getting way too easy to wish to just stay home & relax. That is soooo not us & a big sign this was not our church home. I believe God called us to this season for a rest that was needed more than we realized. I also believe He calls us to do work for His kingdom someway somehow. So we are now trying another church. Again great worship/preaching. Different in denominations (what we’ve grown up with all our lives is really not an option out here unless God writes it on the wall that is His plan for us) & how worship looks like, only time will tell if this is the one. But I am ready for fellowship & to get involved again. When you’ve tasted & experienced a wonderful community you never forget it. I also realize that when God does give us a very special experience we may never experience the same again, but we can have what you’re looking for. While we’re looking, God has brought into our lives 3 couples that do community like you’re looking for. They have welcomed us in their group. For that I am thankful for. And I’ve found that being new it takes time to build that community. And especially then God proved Himself faithful & drew me into a closer, richer relationship with Him while waiting for the community to happen. I’ll be praying for you & your family & for all others around the world who are searching for community to do God & life with & also for the churches & people who make up the church to realize how much we need each other in our walk with God on this earth. I pray you never give up your search & that God will show you where you can go to find community & show you how you can be part of that community for others. And that you will experience Him closer than ever before during this waiting season. Blessings on pursuing your calling for Him. He if faithful when we seek Him!
Hi Beth, I just found your blog (Through Narrow Paths to Higher Places). Great post. I echo everything you said. I grew up deeply involved in the church but in the past 5 years we haven’t attended at all. That was after years of struggling about it every Sunday. What finally ended our going was when our second son was born. We had been at a new church for a few months and about the only thing anyone had found out about us was that I was pregnant – not hard to learn at 9 months. But no one tried to know us enough to find out that our son had a fatal heart defect. After his short life we couldn’t bring ourselves to go back to the place where the smiling strangers would ask to see the baby. Because, as sad as it sounds, church didn’t feel like a place where when someone asked how I was I could break down and cry. And we haven’t been back because we can’t find a place where it’s ok to say that there are things that happen in life to shatter your faith. And when could people need a church more? Platitudes won’t help. Nor will it help me to hear that God’s blessings are obvious because your small problems are solved and your family is safe, healthy and rich. Because there are obvious implications there for the family who’s prayers for healing God did not answer. And I’m not belittling health and safety and the means to care for your family. I’ve been thankful for those things many times myself. It’s just that in the most raw place my life and faith have ever been, there are very few Christians that I’ve been able to talk to about it.
So I agree with your ideal church. We’re moving across the country today and wondering if when we do if we’ll be able to find a place like that.
Hi Janice,
Thanks for taking the time to leave a comment – I so appreciate your thoughts and addition to the convo. I am so very sorry to hear about your precious baby. I don’t even have words because I don’t presume to know anything about your pain, but thank-you for sharing your story. I’m also sorry for the way the church failed you. This makes me so sad and angry. I pray you can find a church family some day that loves you fully and deeply.
xo
B
I’ve stumbled on your blog today for the first time [and I love it!], so I’m late coming to this discussion and I don’t have time to read all of the responses, BUT…. I went through exactly what you describe. My Church, which I was very actively involved in, was so empty. There was no fellowship. Attending Church did nothing to bring me closer to God and in fact left me often frustrated and angry [with hateful Church members saying mean things about my small children, who were actually well behaved for the most part]. It was cold and completely empty for me. I struggled for YEARS with the feelings you describe and finally after much soul searching, I went on a quest to find the “right church”. For me, that Church was the LDS Church. I converted 4 years ago and it was the best thing I ever did. Converting was very difficult for me – it meant walking away from all of my friends [who were livid that I would dare convert, especially to such a "weird" religion] and walking away from what meager support system I had. However – it was SO worth it. That paragraph you wrote about what you wish Church was like? That is EXACTLY what Church is like for me, every single Sunday. It is awesome. I am so happy, and I look forward to Church more than anything else in my life now. It has been such a blessing – bringing me closer to God and making me a better friend and servant to everyone I encounter. I know conversion may not be an option, but I encourage you to investigate your options – Church *should* be what you described, it *should* uplift us, and bring us great Joy. Good luck to you!
Yeah, conversion is not an option for me, but I appreciate your encouragement!
oh my! I completely second what Kelly said. I just had exactly the same experience reading this post. Your description of what church should be and feel like every week is definitely the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. i read your list, right down to the BF babies, going ‘check, check, check. wow!’
i’m sorry you feel that conversion is not an option for you, because for me, it completely changed the course of my life for the better. i can’t imagine going through some of my recent trials without the support of my fellow church members. they truly exemplify Christian service. i hope you are able to find what you seek elsewhere, but if not, remember that you know one place to find it.
Can I third what they said!?! I feel the same fellowship in the LDS church….no matter where I move to. It really is a lovely thing.
I don’t mean to yell, but THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE FEELING LIKE. So sick of having our own BIP every week…rarely knowing everyone…we want a house church so badly. Don’t know where to find one, but it’s worth looking for. I think it’s going to explode in the US soon enough! More and more people are getting tired of “traditional” church as we know it!
I certainly hope house churches explode. I would love that!
I’ve heard many stories like yours and it was mine too for a number of years… then I started attending Mars Hill church in Federal Way WA and got involved in a Thursday night community group. Even if Sunday doesn’t always feel like the ideal church experience you described above, my Thursday nights definitely are! I hope you are able to find a church that has that sense of community and can be loved and served as you love and serve others to God’s glory!
Thanks Jennifer, I hope so too
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The desire you express in a church is very similar to what I feel we have as I go to our church each week. We truly care about each other and it feels like getting together with friends and family weekly. What a great environment to learn more about our savior, Jesus Christ. We have programs each Sunday for young children up through teenagers as well as adults. Also weekly activities for the youth. Going to church each Sunday is something I look forward to and not a drudgery! To find out more about our church and find a church near you, visit Mormon.org
I know you won’t be disappointed.
We don’t attend church either, but we still count ourselves very much a part of the body of Christ.
I hear you. That’s exactly how we feel too.
So I just noticed that someone else left a similar comment. Guess I’m redundant, but like she said, I also felt prompted to toss in my two cents. :-)
Thanks for sharing your thoughts – I love hearing them, even if someone already said something similar!
Hello Beth,
Our preacher directed us to this sight to read. I can honestly say, we worship with a church family that is exactly as you “wish church could be”. As a result of this church family, my 89 year old mother was baptized. Something I had prayed about for 34 years. We aren’t purfect, but we are striving to follow the love Christ showed in the Bible. Wish you were here in Surprise, AZ and attending the Church of Christ. I think you would find a church family, feel at home, and want to attend each week. Hope you can find this for you and yours where you are.
Sincerly,
Sandy and Jerry Arnold
Wow, that sounds amazing! I know that churches like that are out there… and I pray that we find one for our family one day too! Thanks for your encouragement
Hi Beth,
Throughout my life I have sincerely prayed, studied, and searched for answers and truth and I can say that I know that it is the Lord’s church. I have received all of the happiness I could have ever imagined in this life from learning about the Gospel of Jesus Christ and being a part of His church. As you described the church you envisioned, I couldn’t help feel like you were describing exactly how I feel going to church. Of course, since everyone in the church is only human, not everything runs perfectly (though most try to be as Christlike as possible and wow I have met incredible people). We believe that Jesus Christ truly is the head of the church and so the organization of the church is perfect. Everyone that attends or serves does it simply because they want to…no one is even paid in the church, not even the bishops!…many leaders work hours and hours taking care of others and doing a variety of service because God has brought that great love in our hearts. I’m young and not the best at explaining things but it seems as if you already have a love of the Savior just lacking in the church aspect, so you can visit mormon.org to learn more about it and find a church near you to visit sometime 
If you have any questions feel free to ask me!
So I randomly found your blog while looking at recipes on Pinterest and was intrigued by this discussion. I am usually not the type of person to post a comment on someone’s blog I don’t know but I felt so prompted to respond. I go to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (aka Mormon). It is the greatest blessing in my life. I just want to share it with everyone!!
Thanks so much for your sweet message & encouragement
Oh, I completely understand. Especially about the pursuing missions and feeling obligated to stay inside the circle of church trust to accomplish it. Sad face.
Beth,
I just discovered your blog through Amber (Parenting with Crappy Pictures) and started reading around a little and found this note through your other day of the horrible sermon (which I would email the pastor if you haven’t already). My husband and I have a ministry in Texas and we get all kinds of looks and questions about us having a ministry and not attending a “regular” church. We have had some really bad experiences at the last 2 church homes that we had, and we have decided that we won’t ever join a church again. Instead of joining churches, we do a support group for people who have gotten out of prison and their families on the outside. Our ministry is exactly what you mentioned above about what you look for and believe a church should be. We strive to be that because of our experiences with cold churches, dying churches, and old BIP people who you couldn’t get off the pew if Jesus himeself walked into the church. I hope you are able to find a church that fills your need, we have yet to do that, so we created our own. A lot of people won’t agree with what I am about to say, but get a group together and do your own home church, open a bible and do a weekly bible study, nothing says you HAVE to have church on Sundays. You are the church, you have church when you open the Word. Get some friends together and do a bible study, who knows what it can grow into! Now it is time for me to read more of your blogs, so far I love what I have seen, great job!
I just discovered your blog today off a pin on Pinterest, and I am now your newest follower.
Oh boy, how I agree with you. I thank you so much for your honesty, as I feel better knowing I am not the only one.
While I do like “church” (the part about worshiping and hearing a message), I don’t like going to church. When I go to church that is where I feel the most uncomfortable, worrying about how I look, what I’m wearing, what I say, who will sit with me. Church is the place I feel the most judged. How skewed and awful is that? (Especially considering I’ve been attending this church for about 10 years.)
I read about the early church in Acts 4:32-35, and that is my ideal picture of church. Since I know I can only change myself, my solution thus far is just trying to get more involved in different ways to make connections with more people. I guess we’ll see how it goes.
This totally facinates me… I will admit, I’ve skimmed some parts and a few comments, but I might not have caught everything.. I’ve put a *lot* of thought into this myself. And have at times wished is we could just quit or perhaps church shop around. But I’m realizing there’s a few things at play here. At least… in my lil opinion
First off, not that this is your issue… but often is… when people look for a church, I’ve found people rarely pray anymore about where the Lord would have them to be. If they could be a piece of the puzzle with this group of God’s people, to add to it and bring new flavour… I know when we’ve lived away from here I always looked for where my needs could be satisfied… If learned now to look for a church where my gifting could be used. But most importantly, pray pray pray… where the Lord would have you. Because there will *always* be times where things are rough and there’s stuff to work through, but if you have God’s peace that this is part of His purpose for you, and a means (but certainly not the only one) to serve Him then those things can be worked through… which is so important…
The other thing I’ve been thinking about on this issue (it’s been on my mind a lot, before I read your post!) is that I think some of the problem with the North American church is our wealth and busyness… We’re rich enough to entertain ourselves how ever we want and we take part in so many *things* that we’re part of many many groups, but never really becoming close to any of them. I’m guessing a poor village in a 3rd world country does not have issues with community or feeling like they’re known. I kinda wonder if it’s gonna take pursecution of the church here to draw us back to eachother to truly need eachother (and God!) … sad thought eh? We simply don’t need eachother or God… Except that everything else feels rather hollow…
Back to churches though, I love my church. It’s sooo not perfect. I dont know that there’s an amazing sense of community, perhaps there is? I haven’t been in other churches in town. But what I do know is I’d rather be in a small church full of good people, wanting to do the Lords work… then in a large church full of people filling the chairs. I hate the compitition that’s often seen between churches and I love it when churches work together. I’m sure each church in this town has a ministry that the Lord has for it…
I’ll pray that you guys will be able to find some sort of fellowship that spurs you on to His work and draws you into His arms
Ok, super long note… I must run, I’ll try to check your blog more often! It’s been so busy here lately. Gardening, homeschooling, freezer meals, preserving as much fruits and veggies as I can… the list goes on. I’m looking forward to things settling down a little! Oh, and I talked to my aunt, she was ok to bring the violin up to where you were, but turns out we can’t start lessons till after Christmas anyways, so I’ll get my cousin to bring it back when he comes home for Christmas anyways. Thanks so much for the offer!! I think you would have *loved* that aunt of mine… she a herablist who makes most of her own stuff.
Hi, I saw you on Andrea’s blog.
I loved this post! You have read my mind. my thoughts mirrored yours so much. you said these words “I believe that all Christians should be in intentional community with other Christians on a regular basis.” and I feel that so often we can a much better uplifting and encouraging time between believers in settings other than the Church building where we gather every Sunday morning. we pretty much have not gone “to Church” all summer, and I haven’t missed it at all. It is the people, and we can fellowship and help one another on our journey with the Lord in our homes better. or at least that’s how I feel. I think to much importance is put on how often you show up Sunday morning.
great post!
Hey Beth… you and I have chatted, and you know my crazy story… I totally get where you’re going with this and to be honest, the reason we are now driving an hour to church is because of the “church problem” in this area… there are just simply too much politics, too many sad and hurting people who are not being fed and we didn’t want to get involved in that scenario. I love the church you describe… it would be so beautiful! The church we came from demanded kids to be perfect little adults in the pews and BIP was extremely important… I’m so thankful for a caring church home, for now…
And knowing a bit of your background & story, I’m so thrilled that you feel cared for in your current church home. It’s a beautiful thing, and I hope it only continues to get better!
I say the same thing so many have said in these comments– we’ve struggled with this too. I think it’s also a product of society as a whole right now. I have noticed that in general, we are expected to accomplish so much more in our 24 hours each day. People are in a habit of overcommitting and Joe & I experience this lack of relationship and community not just in church but in the circles of friends that we belong to. I’m noticing more and more that our generation seems to commit to doing so many things and in this technological age our goal is to streamline and be as “productive” as we can at all times. There are fewer boundaries between work and family time. It seems that the focus is sprinting through the ever growing “to do” list and family/community takes a back seat. I must say, this really breaks my heart and will erode society. It WILL catch up with us and the effects are/will be devastating for the next generation.
Hey Les. It’s true – church has become just one more thing to add to our growing to-do list, which really only perpetuates the problem. I want church to be my way of life – an organic component in my every day… not just a thing I do a couple times a week (with services, volunteering, etc).
(comment via facebook)
It would be good for everyone to re-think the “what is church” question. I certainly have some opinions
. I don’t think our current way of “doing things” allows for both an open welcome to everyone (and realizing who is a visitor and who isn’t) and a deep enough relationship among believers that promotes encouragement and accountability. Some say that is what small groups are for, but…?
I’d love to hear more of your opinions!
I like how you phrased the issue, and I agree. On small groups: I find them often to be just smaller versions of the Sunday morning thing. Same issues. But I do feel that there’s more potential for real community in them.
(comment via facebook)
Thanks for making us think, Beth. I understand how difficult it is to truly connect in a church, especially if you haven’t been going there since forever when the rest of the folks mostly have and ignore the newcomers, but I truly do believe that you should hang in there and “not forsake the assemblying of yourselves together” [church fellowship]. That verse is true; it is both an encouragement and a warning that an ember by itself that has trouble keeping its flame! As flawed as it is, the church is still the body of Jesus Christ in an inexplicable but real way. Love you. Make sure it is a church that also preaches the Word and is not just a social club.
Hi Diane. I don’t think I plan to quit church permanently… but I do think that this summer has been good to take a breather and figure these thoughts out a bit. Perhaps a follow-up post is in order soon.
(comment via facebook)
:) I enjoyed the read.
You guys are always welcome at our church down in Dallas! 
I’ll be your friend! Plus, I could always use another board op! It’s Vista! 
Thanks Dan!
(comment via facebook)
I just tried to leave a long and obviously profound response on your blog and got an error message. In brief: even though I’m a pastor I feel much the same way; pray for me and others like me. I would really like to make a difference but it is freakin’ hard. I think the choices we have are along two continuum: modern/postmodern; consumer driven/spirituality lured. I feel caught between expectations toward the one and desire for the other.
Hi Gene. Thanks for your thoughts – I appreciate your honesty, especially from a pastor’s perspective. I’d love to hear you expand on this.
Beth, this is something that I believe is not only an issue with ourselves but a symptom of the lack of focus on the church really seeking to follow Christ.
Authentic Christianity Must Happen in Authentic Community. In today’s age, authenticity is lacking in all areas. Instead of being transparent we strive to portray ourselves in the best light, just take a look at social media. One of the reasons why the church is in this situation is because the offensive counter cultural message of the One and Only true God is toned down to a message that resembles a gospel of self help. This is happening not only in the big mega churches, tv evangelists but in our hometown churches because it makes the leaders and attendees feel it is more relevant to Today while making us feel “Safer”. I would love a church where I felt uncomfortable each Sunday because it challenged me both through biblical Christ centered teaching, radical personal accountability and direct ministry to those in need.
I am not sure what to do about it, leaving church or not attending just doesn’t feel right, I don’t know if this is because of a conviction of the spirit, or a latent guilt of our upbringing. However continuing seeking a church doesn’t seem worthwhile. Maybe I need to approach this issue like I do work, I can either be a part of the problem or constantly strive to improve things even if it incremental and slow.
J. Thanks for commenting, friend. I often wonder how much of my thoughts are from latent guilt from my upbringing or from Satan, instead of honest conviction of the Holy Spirit. Tough to discern these things sometimes.
I think that’s a really important point – I have a choice – I can seek to change things (discouraging as it may be) or I can just continue to be a part of the problem. Someone has to start somewhere, I guess!
Thanks for the insights.
Hey Beth,
I haven’t taken the time to read through all the comments because there are a lot of them and some are rather lengthy. Looks like you touched on a subject folks like to talk about!
Just wanted to offer a few comments with regard to what you *wish* church was like.
1) This sort of church community will never exist. Nor should it! How can we make sense of Jesus’ tough sayings on loving one’s enemies, bearing with one another, speaking the truth to one another in love etc. if we’re in a room full of friends? Friends are people that are like us. People we would *want* to associate with. But the church is not this sort of community and it becomes problematic, I think, when we want to make it so. Life is messy, we know this. Relationships are taxing and often a source of conflict. There can be no idealistic, happy-friendly-warm-welcoming church community. There can only be the sort of church community that exists in the grittiness and dirtiness of real life where real people (friends and enemies and everyone in between) live life through real issues together.
2) Does this description of a community we *wish* existed betray our consumerist tendencies? I understand and even resonate with many of your wishes: greeted with love and acceptance, being desired (others being glad we’re there), being challenged, encouraged, safe etc. Yet I find myself wondering when we have these sorts of wish lists for ourselves and our church communities if we’re not betraying our consumerist tendencies. A church community isn’t something we can selectively build, as if we could include only warm welcoming people and exclude all the cold harsh ones. When church gets all caught up in our consumptive habits (which are very deeply engrained) things get lost and confusing.
All that said, I get your frustrations (hey, remember that church we were on staff at together?!). Maybe y’all should start meeting with a few other folks in a home somewhere. Meet weekly to eat, pray, worship, play etc and see what happens. My hunch is that when the gospel is planted like that it must bear some sort of fruit (be it visible or not).
Keep on keepin’ on.
Peace!
Hey JT! Thanks for your well-thought-out comments. Let me address a few things:
1) “Friends are people that are like us.” I’m going to have to disagree with this one. This may be true a lot of the time, but it’s not necessarily the case. In my ideal church scenario, I am meaning friends as people who value me and love me as a sister-in-Christ, no matter our differences. I should have clarified that I would actually prefer a wide variety of different kinds of people (that’s what I was getting at when I mentioned the generational bit – I wouldn’t necessarily normally call many elderly people my “friends”, but I was meaning it in a wider context). Also, this may be nitpicky, but I don’t think I could validly call anyone my enemy who was also a brother/sister in Christ. I may not enjoy their personality, etc… but like you said, it’s gritty and dirty… and I’m ok with that. I’m still called to love them. What I’m not ok with is those who are being fake, with no interest in being genuine. I can love them (though they may not receive it), but those people are not doing church. Doing church requires being genuine and honest, in my opinion.
2) I understand your point about church wish-lists (also applies to church-shopping). I really do. But I don’t think that’s what’s going on for me. I don’t think it’s wrong to have a vision for what you want church to be like (unless your wishlist includes things like professional music, dynamic teaching, and an excellent children’s program…). The point is not what the church can GIVE me… the point is what the church will let me GIVE. I want to give my whole self to a church body – not my Sunday morning well-dressed happy good girl A-OK self. I want it to be gritty, real, honest, and genuine… and when I find that, I believe that the other things (care and concern, enjoyment at being together, etc) will naturally flow out of it. The problem is, I don’t feel that many churches even know how to engage people on a real and gritty level anymore. We’re wooden marionettes, playing the church game every week, and it’s just getting.so.old…
I feel like you just wrote out most of my thoughts on church. We started out at our current church 7 years ago as youth leaders and we still barely know anyone. Basically there is one Lady in the younger end of my parents generation whom I’ve made a real connection with and I don’t think that would have happened if i hadn’t had twins and needed to search out lots of help. We barely even got to know the parents of the kids in our youth group. If I had been a parent of a teen, I think I would have wanted to get to know the people who were helping to influence my children!! They must just trust the leadership inherently…I mean they’re infallible…right!? And I shouldn’t even get started with leadership because according to NT scripture half of them shouldn’t even be holding those positions. So hard to know what’s right anymore and so many people look genuine, but have other motives and hidden agendas. We got close to the youth, but we are not working with them anymore and most of them are gone off to University so we know even less people there now.
Naps have been an issue with us. We wanted to start our oldest in Sunday school. We had avoided it ourselves for a while, not knowing where to fit in since we really have nothing in common with our own age group there. We ended up in a great class (all the other members are over 60) following a teacher who just preaches the word and we learned things about scripture that we’ve never known before…and have been in church our whole lives. So, a lot of mornings….we just did the sunday school thing and went home feeling a lot more blessed than we used to.
I love your picture of the ideal church. I hope someday we can all find something like that. In the meantime, I guess I’ll just have to pray for it…..
I hope that you do find it, Steph. And if you do, let me know! It’s such a tough issue.
Im so sorry you guys are going through this! I was at my church for 10 years before Terry and I got married and left for 3 years. Terry just wasnt able to click there so we left with the understanding that when we had kids we would come back as the childrens program was amazing. When we had ciara 3 years later we returned to maple hill and it had changed so much. There was almost noone that we knew anymore and it felt like a whole new church. I remember crying after service many times over the next 2 years. It just felt lonely. We did stick it out though and even though it took almost 2 years before we began to feel at home, it was worth it. It took a long time and alot of work on our part – but we now have the community we always wanted in a church family. We just slowly got involved and got to know people. From bible studies, to prayer meetings, to music teams, to various committees; we began to slowly build relationships with people in all different age groups within the church. And in doing so built so many wonderful friendships. I love our church, we are crazy involved now and are there at least 3 nights a week for various ministries and then sunday mornings. I think thats the key – the amount of time we have put into it. And now when we walk in it does feel like home, but I think that is because we worked so hard to make it that way. I would say sometimes it doesnt just “click” right off the back. It can take alot of hard work – but its worth it in the end to push through! =) I really pray that you and chris are able to find where God wants you to be. It can feel so empty and lonely without fellowship =)
Thanks for the encouragement, Serena. I have no problem with “putting my time in”, in theory… but I don’t think it should have to take that long for me to feel welcomed (especially for those living the student or missionary lifestyle, moving lots, etc). I get what your saying though, really. I want to find a community that I feel that all the time invested would actually mean something.
I hear ya. I think home churches might be the answer. I don’t have the skill set to start one/preach at one/lead one, but I would be a very, very happy contributor. Apparently they do exist: http://walkslowlylivewildly.com/index.php?s=home+church Actually, The Agora church in Halifax was structurally very much in line with this sort of thing. They’re called the agora (meeting place) because that’s what they tried to be. It was a Sunday evening service, often preceeded by a soup, bread and dessert potluck. There were a number of children, and people were very free to move about and contribute *during* the service. It had it’s faults too, for sure (expecting nothing of most attendees/members, for example), but the premise really appealed to me.
I work hard to get involved in churches, and do alright. It’s harder with children, I find. I want to commit to things, but it just doesn’t fit (like, preparing the neighbourhood meal over our own family’s meal and bedtime). I do what I can, and try to make connections, but am largely unsatisfied.
One of the things that I think should happen in a church is that people should notice when you aren’t there, and they should reach out and let you know that they notice. Not in a creepy stalker way, or in a guilt inducing way, just in a “Hey, we missed you! Is everything all right?”, or, “Hey, we missed you! Have you been getting out to enjoy God’s creation?” sort of way. I’m pretty sure we could cease to attend our church and join a cult or fall off the face of the Earth and only a handful of people would notice, and a smaller handful of people would bother to follow up.
I do believe small groups are at the core of healthy churches. Do you guys have one where you are?
I would love a weeknight, home church set up, much like the one you describe. I think these things come about when someone makes them come about, and usually that someone has to be the one with the vision. I don’t have enough ooumph in me to tackle such a thing at this point, but maybe down the line! I really, really hope you figure something out!
Also, this is sort of related, but have you seen this: http://unpluggedsunday.blogspot.com/ I often think that this sort of thing is, or at least, can be far more “spiritual” that being a bum in a pew. Heavens, I think those minutes on the dock at camp over the years I was there remain some of the most connected-to-God minutes I’ve ever experience. There’s an awful lot of power in the moments we get in the quiet of the outdoors.
Would love to hear a follow up on this, as you work through it.
ps-I think I figured out the captch box thing. It’s a really, really faint blue on my monitor, so it pretty much blends in. Unless you’re really looking for it, you can’t find the space where you’re supposed to put in your magic matching numbers. Maybe I need to adjust something colour-wise! Just thought I’d mention it in case someone else is equally thwarted by apparent colour blindness.
Got to agree with those camp wildwood moments. Sitting down by the Bouctouche Bay Bible in hand or just in contemplation seem to bring me so close to God. I think that’s why I still have dreams about working on staff and want to go there every summer!
I agree – there’s just something about a dock, a Bible, and the warm sun beating down. Contemplative, spiritual… amazing.
That Walk Slowly Live Wildly link is actually really my ideal picture for what church would look like for me. I’ve seen it before, and loved it.
I’m not sure about typical small groups… I find they are often so clique-ish or just mini-versions of the Sunday morning. People are so apathetic.
That unplugged Sunday thing looks amazing… I’ve been mulling over the idea of the Sabbath lately, and that is right in line with what I’ve been thinking. Love it.
So glad you figured out the box – I love your comments!
Although I’m older and long past a baby’s nap interfering with church attendance, I’ve still struggled with the lack of community in church for a very long time. Part of it is that I am a retiring person, and don’t like the struggle of constantly introducing myself, and part of it is that paradox of craving community while needing a certain amount of anonymity. Currently I’m going to just the evening service of a large (read: four morning services) church, and it is much closer to my comfort level. It’s slow going, getting to know people, but at least they’re generally welcoming and even appreciative when I fill in during the regular pianist’s absences. (We sing real hymns from the book in the evenings!)
There were lots of reasons, some more valid than others, to skip morning service for me. Folks nearly tripping backwards over my mom’s walker because they weren’t paying attention to people passing behind them, for example — or the weeks on end of sitting with a cup of coffee at a “cafe” table, with no one ever approaching! I can’t forget the lady who greeted me warmly and welcomed me to the morning service, and who then asked me how I’d liked my first service… except I’d already been attending there for two years. I must have a forgettable face. Contemporary Christian music with less than guessable music and overly repetitious (and ungrammatical!) lyrics aren’t my favorite, and my poor mom was constantly bewildered. She loves to sing, and when we discovered that they sang the old hymns in the evening service, there was no turning back.
I’m from a MK/PK background, too, and I know what true community can be. At least I’m blessed with a weekly Bible study in my heart language (not English), where I can minister and be ministered unto, and there more than anywhere I am at home spiritually. I’ve never had a small group experience at any Stateside church — I’ve been too wary to try. My single-again status and my caretaker role certainly don’t help, but maybe one of these days I’ll try it. Right now, though, I don’t need another event to get Mom to on time, to smile silently through, or to plan and prepare food to take to that I hope will be eaten.
I so hear you on the “constantly introducing myself” bit. Especially when you’re not even new anymore. That just seems so messed up. I also have so many hang-ups with a lot of the contemporary worship music – and I’m in my late twenties!
Thanks for sharing your story, and I pray that you find the genuine community with God’s people that you are seeking.
WOW! You just put into words everything I’ve been thinking and feeling about church for the past…..oh, at least the last 20-odd years of my life! I’m both a PK and MK, so I can relate there. And BIP? I laughed so much when I read that
The church you described seems to me the very epitome of the early church in the New Testament. I am fairly sure this is exactly how it was in those early days. People welcomed in a loving spirit…..everyone embraced equally no matter what they were wearing…..people coming together in a right spirit to worship God and give thanks for all His goodness. Fast forward to 2011…..what happened along the way? I believe the church got caught up with religiosity and being run like a business. Yes I know churches need money too, but what happened to trusting God to provide their needs? Isn’t that what we’re supposed to do? Why is “the church” any different?
I cannot tell you how many, many churches I’ve been to in my life where you walk in, you walk out, and no one greets you, no one knows your name (or even cares enough to find out), no one really cares. Everyone is wrapped up in their own problems and/or their own little “cliques” (oh yes, cliques are not just in high school!!). In fact, the church we’re attending right now is very much like this. I often wonder why we bother going back week after week, and quite honestly I think it’s mainly because the preaching/teaching is good and edifying. But this just isn’t enough. I long for so much more!
I guess the question is, where does one go from here?
Thank you for this incredible, thought-provoking post!
A PK and an MK – double whammy, eh?
I’ve thought for a long time that the NT model of church is more what I am desiring. I agree that churches have been run like businesses (some of them, anyway), and I hate that. I find it’s usually the mega-church model that buys into that the most, and I am definitely *not* a fan of those. It’s the medium and small ones too though, which is sad. Religiosity is another HUGE factor. It’s a huge turn-off for me, and that is a very big piece of this whole puzzle.
I hear your question, and I echo it. Let’s keep the conversation going, shall we? Perhaps the answers will come as we seek them in truth and grace.
Very thought provoking, Beth.
Many time i too feel as though we are just going to Church for the sake of going, because we’re “supposed to”. Not exactly the best motive. Thankfully, i feel as though our Church is making an effort to change it’s definition of community, become more aware of people’s needs, develop small groups, etc.
Thanks for the honesty in this post! Great opportunity for discussion and to realize that others struggle with the same thing.
It’s so encouraging to hear of churches making a conscious effort at genuine community. I don’t want to give up on the church just yet! Thanks for commenting
The Bible does instruct us not to forsake the gathering together with other believers, so we are to meet regularly. However (and I’m sure someone’s gonna wanna shoot me for saying this!) I don’t think this means, necessarily, that we must be at church every Sunday. So if someone finds a consistent way to gather together with other believers and give/receive spiritual edification thereby….I don’t think you’re gonna be ushered out of the pearly gates when we get there lol. Just my thoughts. But the key is that – wherever a person is gathering together with other believers there should be consistent attention given to edifying others, and the whole ‘iron sharpening iron’ dynamic. We also need to get into *some* kind of community with other believers; the scriptures do tell us that if one falls alone, who’s there to help? But if one falls and others are around, they can be helped. Christian families need other christian families – you never know when you will go through a rough patch and be eternally grateful for the love and genuine care of other believers who were able to help.
If someone is going to church every Sunday and they are rarely edified (even after trying their best to be involved) I question whether they should be going to that particular church. No joke, when I left the church I grew up in a member of my family was distressed, saying that I would receive far less money as wedding gifts whenever I married if I left! Well, let me tell you…that only confirmed my decision to leave and go to a church focused on evangelism and on personal connections/edification/encouragement through cell groups. My husband and I are at this church, and people reached out with such love to us when we had a rough time after the difficult birth of my daughter. I feel these people are more like church family than the church I grew up in ever was……
Is it possible, though, that the church you visited had a denominational style you didn’t prefer? Sometimes finding a great church community is about really considering what your worship styles is (how you and your husband connect to God most) and looking for that quality in the church you settle in (for however long God calls you to be there). I was raised pentecostal, but I don’t actually prefer that worship style. I actually think my own leanings are closer to high Anglican/Catholic in some ways than Pentecostal (my father is horrified: he was raised anglican and became pentecostal after marying my mom lol. At present, he wants to know where he went wrong
). My church is neither Anglican nor Catholic, but it is more reserved and contemplative in focus, so it works for us (my husband likes service to be a bit more spirited than I prefer, and this church has actually worked out as a great compromise. Phew!)
Just thoughts towards thoughts
…..
“If someone is going to church every Sunday and they are rarely edified (even after trying their best to be involved) I question whether they should be going to that particular church.”
Yup, I totally agree, and this is the issue. Now, granted, I haven’t visited every single church in my area (there are a surprisingly large number for it being a small town), but I have heard lots about most of them (again, it’s a small town… word travels around), and I do know that most/all of them are the same ol’ traditional model that is inherent in the problem, for me.
As for the denominational style – that could be part of it, I guess. I think it’s more an issue of overall structure and philosophy in how “church” is done. I suspect the home church idea is more up my alley… but there are none close to us at all, that I know of.
Oh, and in terms of it being the same time as nap time, yes, I know that’s hard, but we go anyway. A little easier now that Caleb is a bit older, but when each of our kids were babies, and NEEDED the morning nap, it was hard. But we felt we, and our kids, still needed to go. Sometimes I would have to find a quiet spot and just rock my baby so he could get some sleep. Caleb still naps in the morning, and Sundays mess up schedules, but church on Sunday is a must for us, unless of course someone is sick.
Yeah, we used to just go anyway, despite it being hard on the kids’ naps. But lately we haven’t, and it’s been pretty much just a convenient excuse that I can give when I don’t feel like getting into the deeper issues that I wrote about here. I know that if I had the kind of church I dream of having, I’d sure as heck just go anyway… and probably a more creative solution could be found because it would be a more organic/family-aware environment… but perhaps that’s another blog post for another day
Beth, I get it, I’ve been there. I’m sooo thankful, though, for our church. Been going there since I married Jeff, and did go there some before (youth group in high school, etc). Honestly, even once I started attending there regularly it took me time to get to really know people. Though I’m a lot more of an introvert. This year, though, I LOVE our church. Not sure what totally changed, but maybe because I don’t have a baby anymore who constantly needs my attention or be nursed, and also we have a new pastor & wife. I did love our old pastor, they were great people, but I can’t say enough I’m thankful God brought our new pastor & his wife. Laura (pastor’s wife) is sooo sweet, and I feel like I can really open with her. She has a huge heart, and always seems to have a smile on her face. Definitely shines the love God. And I’ve been connecting more with some other women from our church. It’s soo nice. So really it took me about 6 years before I REALLY started getting to know people. I think that’s probably more my own fault, though, and the fact we live 45 minutes from our church. I still struggle with that as I can’t be as involved as I would like.
Keep praying, Beth, and don’t give up. I truly being involved in a church is very important and God asks us to do it. But if you truly aren’t happy at a certain church, and don’t feel welcomed with open arms and the love of God, it is time to look for another church. Wishyou lived close so you could come to our church!
And Joy, feel free to come to Marysville Baptist if you happen to be in the Fredericton area some Sunday morning.
Krista
I’m glad to hear that you have a church that you feel connected and loved in. That’s such a great gift! It’s interesting that something changed recently – I wonder what factors were involved in that? Other than not having a nursing babe. I’m assuming there would be more to it? Maybe not? I don’t know. Thanks for your thoughtful comment!
I think part of it is that I’ve pushed myself to open up more to some of the women there, and part of it is the new pastor & wife. They really are great.
I feel like you and I could have a looooooong conversation about all this. I love the worship and teaching at my church but finding community has been so hard. I’ve been there a year now and thought I’d feel more settled in but instead I feel anonymous despite my efforts. Right now I’m hoping and praying that community will come with time.
Oh man, how I would love a good chat over tea on this subject. It’s just so encouraging knowing that others struggle with the same thing. In a way I feel like there’s just something so wrong about still feeling anonymous at your stage (and mine) of being in a church. It should not be that way! It’s frustrating, but I don’t know what the solution is. And, maybe, it will come with time, like you said. I hope so, for you!
Oh how I can relate! We haven’t been going for…well…a while. Evie’s naptime actually spans BOTH morning services in the area & we just haven’t figure out how to deal with that. On the other hand it serves as a convenient excuse to not search for a church. The last time I had a church like you described was 8 years ago & it was wonderful. I think that when I go to church I often look for what I had but I feel like that kind of church family doesn’t exist…at least not where I’m looking, which can be so discouraging. But I absolutely believe that community is VITAL & that church is key to that. I also want my kids to grow up with church but I also want it to be more than Sunday morning handshakes & surface relationships. Which means that we have to keep looking. Easier said than done!
It really can be discouraging, I know. And I’m not sure what to do about it. I’m living with that tension right now, and it’s hard.
We’re in the same boat. And it’s a new boat that I find myself in – I’ve always loved church. I grew up in a traditional church, but it was a community that loved and supported one another, challenged members to really live out their faith, etc… I miss it. Our current church is…well…lacking. (And I knew our pastor before we came, too, which makes things good sometimes and awkward other times…) I would love to experience again the kind of fellowship and worship I knew in the past, but there are very few options here, too. Joining with you in prayer as you seek, my Friend.
Thanks Joy. Thanks for understanding and for hearing me.
this is the first time in *years* that i have experienced what you described in your “ideal” wish for church to look like.
and it has been amazing and life changing and so incredibly healing.
and i think it all begins with a few who desire to establish a loving community who worship Jesus and learn about Him together until it becomes a place that attracts people from all walks of life; we have the wealthy and the poor, those who have been in prison and those recovering from major addictions and those who have been “good christians” all their lives. and i have sat and watched genuine relationships exist between each “group” each week.
the first day we walked in, we were talked to and welcomed and our names have been remembered each week and sunday has become our most looked forward to day of the week. the kids too!
and i know it isn’t perfect, but it’s given me hope that there are communities of believers out there who are more then the numbers of BIP’s or making sure the grove their bums have been carving out for the last 20 years carve out another sunday because “it’s the right thing to do”.
anywho – all that to say…the *ideal* is out there. it really is, and maybe the potential could be hidden in a church already established in its ways? i don’t know how that potential can be unearthed…but He does have a knack at raising the dead to life.
Wow, Kim, I am SO thrilled that you’ve found that kind of place for your family. What a blessing! I don’t doubt that these places exist… it’s just sad to me that it is the exception rather than the rule. God really does have that knack, doesn’t he? And I need to trust Him more and worry less. That would be a good start, most likely
You have put in words what I have been thinking and discussing for sooooooo long. The question of what to do about it has been particularly plaguing us this summer. Thank you Beth for sharing my heart.
So good to hear from you, Nancy. And thanks for sharing as well – it’s so encouraging to hear of others struggling with this too.